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#51 2010-03-17 01:17:36

chekreyes
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Re: Who is gym ratting next season?

Punk42AE wrote:

Matty sjut said he's fucll out!

Oh boy. Let's all pray he made it to bed safely.


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#52 2010-03-17 01:27:59

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Re: Who is gym ratting next season?

Back to the topic of GR, I am shocked more teams are not GRing while attempting a championship run.  If done properly you could very easily be in position to not only compete during the season, but also to be favored for the title game.

Just watch bird for proof.

Mattya just think about a team more or less doing what an individual on AB did.


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#53 2010-03-17 06:05:16

bbkaos
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Re: Who is gym ratting next season?

Just to be clear, are you guys saying a team can be ultra competitive in the end while having non role players full rat?


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#54 2010-03-17 06:22:57

Synergy
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Re: Who is gym ratting next season?

dss02 wrote:

Back to the topic of GR, I am shocked more teams are not GRing while attempting a championship run.  If done properly you could very easily be in position to not only compete during the season, but also to be favored for the title game.

Just watch bird for proof.

Mattya just think about a team more or less doing what an individual on AB did.

I don't think that is possible.
Best you can achieve is a partial gym rat with the players getting enough TCs to end the season with the skills needed.

However more often than not, your caught in the middle, you have neither gone all out on ratting nor will you win the championship. Not to mention you are not as prepared for the next season as the team that has gone all out with their gym ratting.

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#55 2010-03-17 06:48:35

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Re: Who is gym ratting next season?

Honestly is you rollback with 800ish points it is possible, and which would you prefer...
L7 chems or a 25% kicker to your primary if you did come up short?


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#56 2010-03-17 06:49:54

bbkaos
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Re: Who is gym ratting next season?

I think a lot of it comes down to how you feel about secondaries.


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#57 2010-03-17 09:05:52

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Re: Who is gym ratting next season?

So which gym rat team is going to go the furthest?


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#58 2010-03-17 09:52:57

mattya802
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Re: Who is gym ratting next season?

dss02 wrote:

Back to the topic of GR, I am shocked more teams are not GRing while attempting a championship run.  If done properly you could very easily be in position to not only compete during the season, but also to be favored for the title game.

Just watch bird for proof.

Mattya just think about a team more or less doing what an individual on AB did.

No way can a team that is full ratting be "favored" for the title game.  I'll bet on that.

Yah, I know you can all reach 1200 to still get max SP's into your primary, but even that player didn't reach 1200 and lvl 7 and he had been ratting forever.  I mean, I'm sure you can reach lvl 7 and 1200, but even that doesn't mean auto win.


tmoney20 wrote:

It has been proven that you can be successful GRing to various degrees, even doing an all out rat.  Especially come playoff time, why would you not want to be playing your best on day 45 rather than day 5?  In fact many top teams now use a strategy that is fairly similar to a smart full gym rat strategy. 

I guess it is mostly philosophical as to what you value in being "competitive".  Would you rather rebuild and still have a chance to be competitive in playoffs or spend a season with no chance to compete and possibly have a slightly better chance the following season but by no means a guarantee to succeed.

I like how you added in that little kicker at the end lol

I guess my point is being successful or competitive to a "certain degree" is pointless.  I personally, would rather waste a full season (seeing as you aren't going to win the big game, or even be considered a "top team") and increase my chances for the following season as much as possible.  When I rat, I use PA.  Obviously none of this discussion would be possible if PA was in the mix.

I understand how ratting and being somewhat "successful" works and I'm not doubting it, I just think it's pointless. 


Oh and to quote someone wise:

I don't give a crap that team X made it to round Y in season Z.


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#59 2010-03-17 09:56:56

Punk42AE
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Re: Who is gym ratting next season?

But the true question is, do you give a crap if they do it in Season R?

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#60 2010-03-17 10:02:40

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Re: Who is gym ratting next season?

who the truck cares if they are the favored team? last time i checked the favored team doesnt always win...

i would much rather effectively rat (most people still dont know how to do this) and have a shot, than waste a whole season using PA and not gain much at all.....

PA is, imo, one of the most useless skills there is.


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#61 2010-03-17 10:09:59

Sirvini
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Re: Who is gym ratting next season?

Blowcaine wrote:

who the truck cares if they are the favored team? last time i checked the favored team doesnt always win...

i would much rather effectively rat (most people still dont know how to do this) and have a shot, than waste a whole season using PA and not gain much at all.....

PA is, imo, one of the most useless skills there is.

IMO Pure Athlete can be a very useful skill point to have.  But you have to use it right.  It's just like gym rat where there are right ways and wrong ways to go about it.


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#62 2010-03-17 10:17:50

mystic
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Re: Who is gym ratting next season?

mattya802 wrote:

I understand how ratting and being somewhat "successful" works and I'm not doubting it, I just think it's pointless.

Pointless is wasting a whole season including the money you spent for nothing besides a slightly better chance to win it all next season. How many teams in Kareem last season spent the season before just with Gym Rat? A couple, as far as I know at least the Studmuffin Bakery, Tss.com and Norman Sooners. How many of those teams won it all? NONE! The winner was a team which didn't use Gym Rat the season before.

I want to bring up a good example what is possible with full gym rat:

Start of season 7: Bullets vs. Pats 90-165 -> http://www.courtrivals.com/showBoxscore.php?gid=123531
Elite 8 season 7: Bullets vs. Pats 128-107 -> http://www.courtrivals.com/showBoxscore.php?gid=150067

Which of those games would you rather want to win? The big one at the start of the season or the one which will give your team a final 4 appearance?

Think about that.


The Baltimore Bullets (S4 - S17): 395-210 RS record; 38-13 PS record; Runner-up in S 7, 13, 16, 17; Elite 8 in S 6, 9, 10, 12, 15; Pro A/B from S 6 to 17
Thanks bhill1767, Blowcaine, FastAsATurtle, fresh_tacos, Funk, Harbour, jbus, Lord Rott, marv88harrison, mchea, pat_mac05, redundant, rippev, team rohan, tesche, tmoney20, tsb5026, UCFinfan86, x-factor

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#63 2010-03-17 10:37:01

mattya802
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Re: Who is gym ratting next season?

mystic wrote:

mattya802 wrote:

I understand how ratting and being somewhat "successful" works and I'm not doubting it, I just think it's pointless.

Pointless is wasting a whole season including the money you spent for nothing besides a slightly better chance to win it all next season. How many teams in Kareem last season spent the season before just with Gym Rat? A couple, as far as I know at least the Studmuffin Bakery, Tss.com and Norman Sooners. How many of those teams won it all? NONE! The winner was a team which didn't use Gym Rat the season before.

I want to bring up a good example what is possible with full gym rat:

Start of season 7: Bullets vs. Pats 90-165 -> http://www.courtrivals.com/showBoxscore.php?gid=123531
Elite 8 season 7: Bullets vs. Pats 128-107 -> http://www.courtrivals.com/showBoxscore.php?gid=150067

Which of those games would you rather want to win? The big one at the start of the season or the one which will give your team a final 4 appearance?

Think about that.

Those games were in Season 7.  Think about that.  Also, see above quote.


lol...Just because the winner of Kareem last year didn't rat the season before does not prove that PA is ineffective or that ratting didn't give them first 3 teams a better chance to win it all.

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree on the "pointless" aspect of it.


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#64 2010-03-17 10:39:04

mattya802
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Re: Who is gym ratting next season?

Blowcaine wrote:

who the truck cares if they are the favored team? last time i checked the favored team doesnt always win...

i would much rather effectively rat (most people still dont know how to do this) and have a shot, than waste a whole season using PA and not gain much at all.....

PA is, imo, one of the most useless skills there is.

For a team that is fully ratting and not looking to compete, it's very useful.

How long does it take a person with no awards to go from 30 to 36 endurance?  Lets say X days.

So it gives you X more days to train for that season.  I dono about you, but that doesn't seem useless to me.


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#65 2010-03-17 10:42:29

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Re: Who is gym ratting next season?

i can, and have out trained people using PA (i wasnt) while starting around 50 points behind them. like i said, if you know how to effectively train, its a fairly useless skill.


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#66 2010-03-17 10:47:21

mattya802
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Re: Who is gym ratting next season?

Blowcaine wrote:

i can, and have out trained people using PA (i wasnt) while starting around 50 points behind them. like i said, if you know how to effectively train, its a fairly useless skill.

lol, that doesn't proof the SP is useless, it just proves the other people on your team suck at training


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#67 2010-03-17 10:47:30

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Re: Who is gym ratting next season?

Blowcaine wrote:

i can, and have out trained people using PA (i wasnt) while starting around 50 points behind them. like i said, if you know how to effectively train, its a fairly useless skill.

It doesn't make sense to compare yourself to someone else though. Some people are just bad trainers. Whether they get PA or not is not going to affect how efficiently they train. Let's say that you had PA though, you don't think you would have been able to get higher while utilizing an extra 6 TCs each day?


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#68 2010-03-17 10:51:26

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Re: Who is gym ratting next season?

mattya802 wrote:

How long does it take a person with no awards to go from 30 to 36 endurance?  Lets say X days.

So it gives you X more days to train for that season.  I dono about you, but that doesn't seem useless to me.

Does it? When do you want to use PA? At the start of the season?

How many points do you will gain with that? And after that think about the rollback and how many points you will have at the start of the season more. 15? 20? Maybe not even that, if you train wisely without PA.

Boom isn't the only team which didn't use PA the season before. Just Blaze also was a b2b champion. And despite your believe the game didn't change that much. A full GR-team can end up being a 2nd seed right now!

I don't see any point in using PA. I only used once with a player in Playground, and the result wasn't that impressive afterall (at least not in comparison to the full gym rat player I trained without PA).


The Baltimore Bullets (S4 - S17): 395-210 RS record; 38-13 PS record; Runner-up in S 7, 13, 16, 17; Elite 8 in S 6, 9, 10, 12, 15; Pro A/B from S 6 to 17
Thanks bhill1767, Blowcaine, FastAsATurtle, fresh_tacos, Funk, Harbour, jbus, Lord Rott, marv88harrison, mchea, pat_mac05, redundant, rippev, team rohan, tesche, tmoney20, tsb5026, UCFinfan86, x-factor

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#69 2010-03-17 10:53:56

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Re: Who is gym ratting next season?

SwaggerJ wrote:

Let's say that you had PA though, you don't think you would have been able to get higher while utilizing an extra 6 TCs each day?

The point is: When will you be able to use that skill point for PA? Right at the start of the season? And then? You have to wait for either Gym Rat or Workout Wonder in the end. Either way you don't gain a lot of tp after the rollback.


The Baltimore Bullets (S4 - S17): 395-210 RS record; 38-13 PS record; Runner-up in S 7, 13, 16, 17; Elite 8 in S 6, 9, 10, 12, 15; Pro A/B from S 6 to 17
Thanks bhill1767, Blowcaine, FastAsATurtle, fresh_tacos, Funk, Harbour, jbus, Lord Rott, marv88harrison, mchea, pat_mac05, redundant, rippev, team rohan, tesche, tmoney20, tsb5026, UCFinfan86, x-factor

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#70 2010-03-17 10:54:56

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Re: Who is gym ratting next season?

mystic wrote:

mattya802 wrote:

How long does it take a person with no awards to go from 30 to 36 endurance?  Lets say X days.

So it gives you X more days to train for that season.  I dono about you, but that doesn't seem useless to me.

Does it? When do you want to use PA? At the start of the season?

How many points do you will gain with that? And after that think about the rollback and how many points you will have at the start of the season more. 15? 20? Maybe not even that, if you train wisely without PA.

Boom isn't the only team which didn't use PA the season before. Just Blaze also was a b2b champion. And despite your believe the game didn't change that much. A full GR-team can end up being a 2nd seed right now!

I don't see any point in using PA. I only used once with a player in Playground, and the result wasn't that impressive afterall (at least not in comparison to the full gym rat player I trained without PA).

You guys keep talking about "training wisely".  If you "trained wisely" using PA you would realize it is a useful skill.

15? 20? Do the math man....It's not that hard.  Even if you got both PA's on the 10th day of the season.  What's 6 X 35?

Not to mention 20 extra points into your primary to start a season is a good amount....


I'm not sure why you brought up JB?  I'm not saying a team can't be competitive without using PA or even without ratting.


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#71 2010-03-17 10:56:30

mattya802
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Re: Who is gym ratting next season?

mystic wrote:

SwaggerJ wrote:

Let's say that you had PA though, you don't think you would have been able to get higher while utilizing an extra 6 TCs each day?

The point is: When will you be able to use that skill point for PA? Right at the start of the season? And then? You have to wait for either Gym Rat or Workout Wonder in the end. Either way you don't gain a lot of tp after the rollback.

It's really not that hard to effectively choose your SP's in the right order to maximize use.  You can easily roll back to 750 ish after a non-GR season.


http://www.courtrivals.com/images/sigs/25106.jpg
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Classic - Franchise Connection
West - BM (captain), CR Veterans     Total: 5 championships

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#72 2010-03-17 10:57:06

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Re: Who is gym ratting next season?

I like using PA myself when my teams rat but Blow is right if u dont use it effectively it can be wasteful. I guess i don't mid using PA and wasting the season cos i have other players on other teams i can take an interest in. imo I doubt we will ever see the day when a team of 10 gym ratters including 3 pt shooters wins the title.


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#73 2010-03-17 10:59:12

mattya802
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Re: Who is gym ratting next season?

SASCO wrote:

imo I doubt we will ever see the day when a team of 10 gym ratters including 3 pt shooters wins the title.

It'll never happen.

Not with the site the way it is right now.  Competition isn't always deep, but there are at least a handful of teams that wouldn't let that happen.


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#74 2010-03-17 11:03:15

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Re: Who is gym ratting next season?

Rotoguru Phoenix has become a home for leftover Ratters, if anyone is out there flying solo.


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#75 2010-03-17 11:03:16

mystic
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Re: Who is gym ratting next season?

mattya802 wrote:

You guys keep talking about "training wisely".  If you "trained wisely" using PA you would realize it is a useful skill.

15? 20? Do the math man....It's not that hard.  Even if you got both PA's on the 10th day of the season.  What's 6 X 35?

You don't gain 6x35 tp! That is the whole point. At max you will gain 3 tp per day, which makes 105. In the same time you have spent your skill points for PA you can also spent it for Gym Rat and WW. The difference will be at around 30 to 40 tp at the end of the season. After the rollback that is 15 to 20 points. Believe me I already tried it!

Let me say that 400 in your main and over 1200 tp is possible without using PA. Try to beat that with your PA. I'm really interested in the result.

Last edited by mystic (2010-03-17 11:04:53)


The Baltimore Bullets (S4 - S17): 395-210 RS record; 38-13 PS record; Runner-up in S 7, 13, 16, 17; Elite 8 in S 6, 9, 10, 12, 15; Pro A/B from S 6 to 17
Thanks bhill1767, Blowcaine, FastAsATurtle, fresh_tacos, Funk, Harbour, jbus, Lord Rott, marv88harrison, mchea, pat_mac05, redundant, rippev, team rohan, tesche, tmoney20, tsb5026, UCFinfan86, x-factor

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